More Loving Than The Rising Sun

Pissed about this past week? Feel the need to do something besides call your Congresscritters?

Ntodd has suggestions.

I’m downloading the tax protest form tonight. $12 billion a month, and we say government-funded health care would be too expensive. We say decent and equitable public education would be too expensive. $12 billion a month.

A.

11 thoughts on “More Loving Than The Rising Sun

  1. hoppycalif says:

    I have no choice but to continue to pay my taxes. More than what I owe in taxes is withheld from my pension check every month, and I can’t even reduce the amount, let alone eliminate it. So, that protest is out for me.
    My favorite of the protests is for a mass of citizens to shut down commerce, by gathering in the streets where traffic must flow, shutting down commute routes, blocking access to federal buildings, etc., forcing themselves to be arrested, hauled to makeshift jails and processed. All of this announced before the fact. The risk is of great bodily harm when the police riot as they tend to do when challenged. I haven’t tried to participate in such an action, but I am certainly primed to do so. And, I greatly admire those who do.
    People object to that happening because it inconveniences the ordinary citizen, who is just trying to go to work or go shopping or report to court. But, it is the ordinary citizen who is at fault here anyway. Ordinary citizens put our abominable government in power – twice.

  2. pansypoo says:

    i just make too little to pay taxes. and for the most part i do not pay sales tax either. i only pay fica as i didn’t have enough quarters yet.

  3. Athenae says:

    hoppy, you don’t have to refuse to pay, there’s a section on the form for you to simply note to the IRS that you object. Register your knowledge of how much is being spent on the war and that you don’t like it.
    A.

  4. spocko says:

    I tried to post this at Ntodd place but it hangs. He really should get a blog were I can post. So I’ll post here.
    Great post NTodd! I just want to take this moment to thank people like Ripley and NTodd and Athenae who keep us all going.
    I remember reading someone new who just had his eyes opened and came up with the newbie “Where’s the outrage?” Or “Why aren’t people filling the streets?”
    I’m glad they are bring their new outrage to the party and I’m happy that they are going to protest, but I also like the idea of people using the skills that they have to the most effective use. I spent a tremendous amount of time developing the strategy and tactics that I used to point out to advertisers just how radical the people on talk radio were and how they were not something that they wanted to associate their dollars with. It had a big impact. Lots of you helped. We kicked their ass. Then we kept it going with pushing on Coulter and jerks like Don Imus.
    The thinking “What is the most effective action *I* can take given my skill set” is great. One thing that still frustrates the hell out of me is the money that goes to the ideological cheerleaders. The 160,000 a year think tankers, the million dollar advance that goes to the Hillary attack books.
    They got their pay off. You know how the loons on the right are always going on about Soros? Why? Because they are thinking, “We all get our money from Scaife, Mellon and Moon. Surely they must be doing the same!” But they wingnut welfare exists on the right where ideology is more important than intellectual honesty.
    I wonder if the money dried up would they do it for free? What would happen if the Heritage Foundation, the AEI and other conservative think tank fired everyone? What if they couldn’t get those jobs anymore? What if having an AEI credit on your resume would seen as if you were the executive director for say Nambla? Think about it, their job is to promote ideas that lead to death for hundreds of thousands and the destruction of the health of the entire nation’s economy. Why AREN’T they shunned? Instead of being paid and fawned over they should be unemployed and delegated to personal care of vets without arms who have colostomy bags. They, as much as anyone, helped make their injuries a reality.

  5. hoppycalif says:

    I think we should have learned that protests have little value unless they change something for someone. Spocko found that changing the probability of profits by advertisers was a path to success. Back when MLK Jr. was protesting, he found that causing extreme embarasssment for authorities who kept him and his supporters in jail just for being somewhere was effective. The Vietnam era protesters who risked and often received beatings from police had an effect because even the ill informed majority in this country could see the police rioting in newscasts, and that caused extreme discomfort for authorities. Symbolic protests such as comments mailed to the IRS are not going to have an effect.
    The people at the IRS are just our fellow citizens, who have a job to do. They will see those comments, either agree with them or disagree with them, or even more likely pay no attention at all to them. But, those people in positions of authority will see nothing inconveniencing them nor causing them any other problems.
    We have become such a nation of sheep that we rarely even comment about the “free speech areas” now routinely set up by authorities to give lip service to the Constitution, without actually being bothered by having to follow the Constitution. If we were to ignore those hidden “free speech” areas and actually begin to exercise our rights to freedom of assembly and freedom of speech, either the authorities would back down, realizing that we were entitled to do that, or they would have to set themselves up as violators of the Constitution, with all of the misery that would bring them.
    My state’s State Fair, for example, sets up “free speech” areas outside of the fairgrounds, but prohibits “free speech” inside the fairgrounds. I, and my fellow citizens, just say baaa, as we comply.

  6. spocko says:

    hoppycalif | May 26, 2007 at 15:35
    Hoppy calif makes a great point. What’s the deal with these free speech zones? Just how legal are they? To get rid of them we need to meet and defeat the objections that are thrown up by the right AND by our own side.
    This is all about controlling the visual. And the other thing that the President uses to this benefit is the fear of someone trying to hurt him. This makes a great one, two punch. He can keep those nasty signs and painful questions out of sight by saying, “But we GAVE you your free speech zone and besides we have to protect the president from crazy people, right? We can all agree about that. You would want to protect President Hillary the same way, right? She should be allowed to speak without being shouted down right?”
    So here could be one process. Next Bush public event figure out what the lines of sight for the cameras will be (multiple ones) and then go to the Secret Service and say. “I’m going to be here at these locations and we will be holding these signs, Here are the signs. We want to be frisked and x-rayed. You can run all our names through your lists. Please vet us as rational people. Then when that is done we can sit and stand in the line of sight of the President. What POSSIBLE objection could you have now? It can’t be about safety. It can’t be because it is a private event. The ONLY reason you would object is that you want to censor our speech.”
    This would be designed to break the frame. The image that the White House carefully cultivates is based on sight lines for TV and who they let near the President. Code Pink has down some Great work in this area.
    Sadly the media plays along to in their press conferences. And this filters down from the top.
    For example the FDA and USDA limits their press conferences to One question one follow up from ‘credentialed press’ and then the reporters have to work against their own fellow journalists to get their questions answered.
    I suggested to the journalists that they ask for more time and more flexibility in the questioning. What was the response?
    The FDA and USDA said, “No more press conferences for you!”

  7. NTodd says:

    hoppy, you don’t have to refuse to pay, there’s a section on the form for you to simply note to the IRS that you object. Register your knowledge of how much is being spent on the war and that you don’t like it.
    Thanks, Starbuck. There are degrees of protest and everybody needs to assess how much more they can do individually. Actions have consequences, and not everybody is in a position to take extreme action such as refusing to pay taxes all or in part.
    I would hope people realize that we have a hell of a lot more power than they might think. Exercise yours.

  8. hoppycalif says:

    We absolutely should exercise our power. And, there are many ways to do that, from being selective with our political donations, to voting, to trying to convince others how to vote, to public protesting. But, mailing a form to the IRS, saying you don’t approve of something the IRS has zero influence over just isn’t one of those ways. Far better to mail such a form to your senator, who at least does have some influence over the direction our government takes.
    MoveOn set up “protests” at each congressman’s local office, where a group of us were to try to gain an audience with the congressman. When we did this in Sacramento Congresswoman Matsui was not in town, but her staff treated us as they would treat any of her constituents – with respect and careful listening. Since then our congresswoman has not wavered a bit on her position in favor of cutting off the Iraq occupation, something she had been wavering on.

  9. NTodd says:

    mailing a form to the IRS, saying you don’t approve of something the IRS has zero influence over just isn’t one of those ways.
    How much influence has marching actually had? War over yet?
    The point is there are myriad ways to register protest, as well as withdraw consent. In fact, if you click on the links in my post, you’ll see there are 198 identified by Gene Sharp.
    And my original question stands: what are you willing to risk to end this war? None of the methods you mentioned have done enough. We must go further.

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  11. 198 Sundays: Method 90

    I’m very good at starting new things and absolutely horrible at sustaining projects (and as my colleagues know, often even finishing, say…work I should be doing right now): Intersection, NToddcast, The Liberal Coalition…the list goes on way back to my

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